1. Sim_8_3's Avatar
    The idea of VR as a training tool for Fire Fighters is not a new one and while not the same there are simulators and games like Fire Watch, but there is research being done to actually use VR as a tool for Fire Fighters in the field, researchers in Vienna, (seems like it's always there or Israel for some reason), researchers have been working on a VR system that will allow Fire Fighters to see through black smoke and even see victims with IR, this could be a major breakthrough for fire fighting especially in tight spaces where fire fighters and victims are at most risk.

    Source: Scientific American
    Virtual Reality Brings a New Tool to Firefighting [Video] - Scientific American
    09-10-2016 01:03 AM
  2. pkcable's Avatar
    I think AR will be the bigger tool. Both will of course be useful. VR to help them plan out build entry and for training/simulation. But AR can provide them with displays to show useful info, temp, wind speed/direction etc (Just have to find a way to protect it while they are fighting fires!)
    09-12-2016 10:52 AM
  3. Sim_8_3's Avatar
    I think you are right, since AR will enhance the senses and make them more equipped to navigate a fire scene, still VR does have it's place as well.
    09-16-2016 05:56 PM
  4. firedept10's Avatar
    I am currently at work for the day but am going to respond to this post as I have been in the fire services for 15 years. I will say this for the moment, that VR will have pros and cons that I can see.
    pkcable and Sim_8_3 like this.
    09-19-2016 11:51 AM
  5. John Yester's Avatar
    My .02

    SCBA (Self Contained Breathing Apparatus) is our life line. There has been recent revisions from NFPA (Nation Fire Protection Assoc.) for SCBA's and I will tell you the cost of previous models 4-5 year ago has almost tripled. Right now your looking at 6-7K per pack with a spare cylinder. These NFPA requirements now on new packs adds in new safety features and technology that some are glad to have, while some say it's more to break.

    With Thermal Imaging cameras that we carry we have to use our hands to hold them. I can see it being put in a face mask, but it will add weight and bulk that IMO is not needed for a fire fighter. We already carry 70-100 lbs of gear and that added weight on the head and neck would not allow the Fire Fighter function for long, become fatigue. Thermal cameras alone cost 2k so add that into the price of the SCBA and you are up over 9K.

    Many governments and agencies can not afford this perk of the future if it were to become required let alone a reality. Heck even with grants and other funding that might be available to the company.

    Current SCBA have a HUD (Heads Up Display) which give us remaining air in the system and power left in battery. These are displayed in LED format on the nose cup. It's allows for the mask to be light weight and add to visuals, rather then having to look down at the same gauge on our shoulder strap in limited visibility.

    Having a VR or thermal mode in the mask, will require more power, more weight and of course more money. I think we ARE 10+ year away from seeing this truly adopted into the industry.


    What you are seeing is "Research" nothing more then that. Over there it is common to see. Heck they have jet packs now to fight high rise fires....Hate to be up really high and have a failure or run out of fuel, let alone water......


    Maybe I am old school, but I will you my 19 years of training and skills to function in a search for a possible rescue of someone, and use the current "Hand" tools at my current disposal for now.
    pkcable and firedept10 like this.
    09-19-2016 12:41 PM
  6. pkcable's Avatar
    My .02

    SCBA (Self Contained Breathing Apparatus) is our life line. There has been recent revisions from NFPA (Nation Fire Protection Assoc.) for SCBA's and I will tell you the cost of previous models 4-5 year ago has almost tripled. Right now your looking at 6-7K per pack with a spare cylinder. These NFPA requirements now on new packs adds in new safety features and technology that some are glad to have, while some say it's more to break.

    With Thermal Imaging cameras that we carry we have to use our hands to hold them. I can see it being put in a face mask, but it will add weight and bulk that IMO is not needed for a fire fighter. We already carry 70-100 lbs of gear and that added weight on the head and neck would not allow the Fire Fighter function for long, become fatigue. Thermal cameras alone cost 2k so add that into the price of the SCBA and you are up over 9K.

    Many governments and agencies can not afford this perk of the future if it were to become required let alone a reality. Heck even with grants and other funding that might be available to the company.

    Current SCBA have a HUD (Heads Up Display) which give us remaining air in the system and power left in battery. These are displayed in LED format on the nose cup. It's allows for the mask to be light weight and add to visuals, rather then having to look down at the same gauge on our shoulder strap in limited visibility.

    Having a VR or thermal mode in the mask, will require more power, more weight and of course more money. I think we ARE 10+ year away from seeing this truly adopted into the industry.


    What you are seeing is "Research" nothing more then that. Over there it is common to see. Heck they have jet packs now to fight high rise fires....Hate to be up really high and have a failure or run out of fuel, let alone water......


    Maybe I am old school, but I will you my 19 years of training and skills to function in a search for a possible rescue of someone, and use the current "Hand" tools at my current disposal for now.
    The HUD is exactly where I was thinking the AR would be useful. HUD itself is really a kind of AR, but as equipment and tech advances, so will the info presented in the HUD. Great example would be it being able to show nearest sources of water/in building fire fighting tools, nearest exits, etc. The possibilities are endless. John is right though cost of equipment is a major factor, plus you must consider how often this expensive equipment gets damaged while fighting fires. It's exposed to excessive heat, subject to being smashed by flaming debris etc.

    Much respect for our fire fighters!
    09-19-2016 03:06 PM
  7. firedept10's Avatar
    Now first I will say that I have to agree with John and his comment in regards to cost. It will be one of the biggest factors in this not coming quickly. Do not get me wrong I like the idea and anything that saves even one life is indeed worth it. John is correct in the added weight will be come a big factor, especially if you have a fire that you will be at for long hours or even days. It is hard enough just to be in full gear with SCBA on for a few hours.

    Here in Canada we get some pretty extreme temps to fight fires in. In the summer it can be +35 Celsius and I have personally fought fires in -40 Celsius. At -40 your gear freezes the instant it gets hit with water. Trust me as a firefighter you get very wet. How will this gear hold up to those extremes or water at high pressures. Or if you are in the fire, temps can get pretty extreme there as well. Hundreds if not upwards to a couple thousand degrees. Will the gear tolerate that?

    We already have thermal imaging gear that works well but is cumbersome to carry. It's more used for watching hot-spots after a large fire has been put out. When you are in a fire so many things become a factor. I wonder if I would really have the time to worry about this in my mask. Would you be able to interact with your partner? In a large fire it can be hard to interact with all the noise, smoke and heat. If you could easily interact then that would be a big plus.

    Will it need to be charged on a regular hourly basis or will you have interchangeable battery packs? There are many questions I could pose just sitting and thinking about it for a day or two. Too me cost would have to be minimal and it would have to be totally dependable. I sure as heck would not want it to fail when I needed it the most. Also what kind of cost will be associated with it when it comes to repairs.

    Where I would see the biggest advantage would be in training. It can be used to cover many areas of fire, rescue and some medical. I went to Fire School for fire training. I could see it really helping in fire scenarios. I mean I was put in scenarios in fire school and had an idea of what I would be facing, but my real training came on the grounds. If scenarios using life like situations could be created it would possibly be a help.

    These are just some of my thoughts on it and I will be more than happy to discuss it further if anyone desires too.

    Thank You!
    Don
    pkcable likes this.
    09-19-2016 10:37 PM
  8. Sim_8_3's Avatar
    So first I would like to welcome our 2 Fire Fighters to the discussion and take this opportunity to thank them both for putting their lives at risk to save others and their property, so thank you for your service. I have to agree, their are pros and cons and anything that is going to add a burden to an already heavy amount of equipment will be a con, while there may be advantages to this kind of equipment until it's developed in a manner that is not going to interfere with the task at hand, saving lives and property I see no way it will be of a benefit and will be a needless cost to Governments and in turn tax payers. What I would like to see conceives as a possible reality in the future is that somehow AR maybe in one way or another connected through some way to the visual cortex preferably in a non invasive manner, so that every human being would be wired in a way that they can apply the AR to the best of their ability and to their occupation be itPolice Officer, Fire Fighter or Engineer, in a sense it would be a sixth sense as the inventor in India created, please see my other post, it's not exactly what I envision but it's a step in the right direction. I'm not talking about all of us becoming cyborgs or something like that, just something that would be enhance our senses especially sight and sound and even temperature and helps humans live more productive and safe lives.
    09-21-2016 02:55 AM
  9. pkcable's Avatar
    So first I would like to welcome our 2 Fire Fighters to the discussion and take this opportunity to thank them both for putting their lives at risk to save others and their property, so thank you for your service. I have to agree, their are pros and cons and anything that is going to add a burden to an already heavy amount of equipment will be a con, while there may be advantages to this kind of equipment until it's developed in a manner that is not going to interfere with the task at hand, saving lives and property I see no way it will be of a benefit and will be a needless cost to Governments and in turn tax payers. What I would like to see conceives as a possible reality in the future is that somehow AR maybe in one way or another connected through some way to the visual cortex preferably in a non invasive manner, so that every human being would be wired in a way that they can apply the AR to the best of their ability and to their occupation be itPolice Officer, Fire Fighter or Engineer, in a sense it would be a sixth sense as the inventor in India created, please see my other post, it's not exactly what I envision but it's a step in the right direction. I'm not talking about all of us becoming cyborgs or something like that, just something that would be enhance our senses especially sight and sound and even temperature and helps humans live more productive and safe lives.
    Have you ever seen the Canadian SyFy series Continuum? from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_(TV_series)

    Kiera is cybernetically enhanced with visual implants that give her data directly overlaid on her visual field, sensors with functions that include biometric detection of close-by people (which can, for example, assist in determining whether a person is lying), other environmental metrics (e.g., precise measurement of various things around Kiera), heat detection and telescopic vision (can clearly see fingerprints on surfaces), and a memory implant that constantly records Kiera's sensory information (at least vision, hearing and smell are mentioned) so that she can recall any recent events with perfect clarity. Her sight and hearing can be live streamed in HD to people who have the tech capability and access. Additionally, when Kiera's suit is in proximity, she gains additional functionality, including complete personnel information on targets, and forensic data processing and computing. However it is not always clear whether a particular function is due to her implants, the suit, or the multitool. It is important to note that none of the enhancements are readily visible, so that Kiera appears as a perfectly normal woman of the twenty-first century.
    Something like that? Obviously we are a WAYS away from it, BUT it was pretty damn cool on the show!
    09-21-2016 09:07 AM
  10. Sim_8_3's Avatar
    Have you ever seen the Canadian SyFy series Continuum? from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuum_(TV_series)



    Something like that? Obviously we are a WAYS away from it, BUT it was pretty damn cool on the show!
    I have not seen the series but I sure would like to now that I know about it, I will have to see if SyFy has any archived on their site, she sounds like a more advanced version of RoboCop but of course not as enhanced so that's it's visually noticeable.
    09-21-2016 11:43 PM

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