1. Ian Francis's Avatar
    I know the general consensus is that the Pixel XL (534 dpi) will not have pixelation issues in a VR headset, and the Pixel (441 dpi) probably will. Does anyone know where that line is? I realize there are more factors than just dpi, but that is the most important.
    10-19-2016 07:36 AM
  2. pkcable's Avatar
    I'm posting now so I have this thread on my "participated" list. I have a Daydream coming. I got a promo with my Pixel pre-order, but I think I get a code AFTER I get my Pixel, so it might be a while until I have my units, BUT I will have the combo you seek. I'll let you know.
    10-19-2016 09:12 AM
  3. BioFanatic's Avatar
    I don't think it's completely accurate to assume the Pixel XL will not have pixelation (often referred to as the "Screen Door Effect" or SDE).

    534ppi is pretty great, but keep in mind that the Samsung S6 and S7 have around 577ppi and still have some SDE with the Gear VR.

    Pixel density is a HUGE factor in SDE... probably the biggest factor. However, the pixel configuration also matters, as do things like lenses. If you look at what's actually displaying on the screen when a phone is projecting for VR, you'll see that it's not even the full screen that's displaying content, and you'll also notice that the shape of the frame is distorted and somewhat round rather than square. This is because the lenses then distort that to your eyes, giving the appearance of a regular image. So... what you see through the centre of the lens will be fairly decent resolution, but what you see as you move your gaze away from the centre is that things become a little less crisp, and I'm not just referring to chromatic aberration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration). The stuff at the outside is being displayed with a lower pixel density.

    Let me see if I can explain what I mean about distortion:
    What's the lowest DPI that you won't notice pixelation in a VR headset?-distortion.jpg

    The left is what you want to see. The middle is what you'd see if you looked at that image through VR lenses. So the right is showing the distortion that needs to be displayed in order to see the "normal" image through the lenses. If you look at the right picture, you'll see that the outside boxes are slightly smaller. But when you look at them through the lenses, they appear to all be the same size. Basically, it's stretched optically to be the same size, but the image at the edges is created with fewer pixels.


    Beyond that, it often depends on the type of content that you're viewing. With the Gear VR, most games look great and I don't really notice SDE much, but actual video is where I notice SDE. If you look at a face, for example, it doesn't look crisp. Text can also be an issue and look quite pixelated.

    I don't think we know (yet) where SDE ends, but I'm guessing that we'll see some huge advances once VR screens hit 4K resolution. There are already rumours swirling that the Samsung S8 will have a 4K screen.
    Last edited by BioFanatic; 10-19-2016 at 09:55 AM.
    LezCronut and ghul13 like this.
    10-19-2016 09:33 AM
  4. LezCronut's Avatar
    I know the general consensus is that the Pixel XL (534 dpi) will not have pixelation issues in a VR headset, and the Pixel (441 dpi) probably will. Does anyone know where that line is? I realize there are more factors than just dpi, but that is the most important.
    What? I tried Gear vr oculus with S6 which has 577 ppi and it was pixelated as hell!
    There is no way with current smartphone screens we can expect no pixelation. So we're looking forward to the future.

    However there is a good news: Samsung is building an 11k mobile display that can mimic 3D!
    https://www.engadget.com/2015/07/10/...g-11k-display/

    2,250 ppi! By 2018. Boy I think 2018 then will be the year VR is going to be HUGE!

    Btw, if the screen can already mimic 3D, do we still need fresnel lens?
    pkcable likes this.
    10-19-2016 11:23 AM
  5. vmrgav's Avatar
    I totally agree!
    10-21-2016 01:38 AM
  6. Matty's Avatar
    I know the general consensus is that the Pixel XL (534 dpi) will not have pixelation issues in a VR headset, and the Pixel (441 dpi) probably will. Does anyone know where that line is? I realize there are more factors than just dpi, but that is the most important.
    i do remember reading something about this.
    If i remember correctly you need 450 PPI as a minimum other wise these is not much point.
    550 PPI and higher is recogmended.

    i might be wrong but thats what i remember
    10-21-2016 04:05 AM
  7. tweist's Avatar
    Have there been any pixel vs XL hands on cardboard comparisons yet? I haven't been able to find any
    10-21-2016 01:50 PM
  8. fgmg88's Avatar
    When I get my pixel xl, i can try to give my subjective opinions between pixel xl and my nexus 5x. Unfortunately I won't have a non-XL. Not sure how to provide objective comparison though, since it will just me putting the cardboard on and looking through the cardboard and trying to observe the differences in SDE.
    LezCronut likes this.
    10-21-2016 02:24 PM
  9. Ian Francis's Avatar
    Thanks, that was extremely helpful.
    10-24-2016 08:44 AM
  10. dpham00's Avatar
    I see pixelation on my s7 edge with the gear VR. So QHD is out. Perhaps a 4k? But those aren't mainstream yet
    LezCronut likes this.
    10-24-2016 10:02 AM
  11. fgmg88's Avatar
    Screen door effect is definately observerable on the Pixel XL. Seems similar (maybe a little smaller, obviously) than my Nexus 5x. The one thing that is different is the aliasing. I loaded Google's cardboard app and played around with the demo. Edges are more jagged on the 5x than the XL. Not sure if (higher or better quality?) anti-aliasing would help remove that
    10-24-2016 01:39 PM
  12. tednugent's Avatar
    it almost seems like there is not enough resolution / computing power at this stage of the game yet for vr. is this something that would be better to wait out till 2nd or 3rd gen gear is out?
    10-27-2016 09:11 AM
  13. Ian Francis's Avatar
    If I weren't getting a headset free with my pixel I wouldn't bother. Ignoring the resolution, I just don't see a compelling case for it yet. I mean, I will definitely play with it, but I just have trouble seeing myself using it regularly.
    10-27-2016 09:27 AM
  14. Toughmn's Avatar
    I agree VR is still in its infancy at this point.
    10-27-2016 12:30 PM
  15. Adramyttium's Avatar
    I think even the highest resolution devices on the market today will produce some pixelation. It's simply the reality at the moment in an immature product area.
    10-27-2016 02:08 PM
  16. Ian Francis's Avatar
    What? I tried Gear vr oculus with S6 which has 577 ppi and it was pixelated as hell!
    There is no way with current smartphone screens we can expect no pixelation. So we're looking forward to the future.

    However there is a good news: Samsung is building an 11k mobile display that can mimic 3D!
    https://www.engadget.com/2015/07/10/...g-11k-display/

    2,250 ppi! By 2018. Boy I think 2018 then will be the year VR is going to be HUGE!

    Btw, if the screen can already mimic 3D, do we still need fresnel lens?
    I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. That sounds like an insane ppi.
    10-28-2016 09:11 AM
  17. Ian Francis's Avatar
    I don't think it's completely accurate to assume the Pixel XL will not have pixelation (often referred to as the "Screen Door Effect" or SDE).

    534ppi is pretty great, but keep in mind that the Samsung S6 and S7 have around 577ppi and still have some SDE with the Gear VR.

    Pixel density is a HUGE factor in SDE... probably the biggest factor. However, the pixel configuration also matters, as do things like lenses. If you look at what's actually displaying on the screen when a phone is projecting for VR, you'll see that it's not even the full screen that's displaying content, and you'll also notice that the shape of the frame is distorted and somewhat round rather than square. This is because the lenses then distort that to your eyes, giving the appearance of a regular image. So... what you see through the centre of the lens will be fairly decent resolution, but what you see as you move your gaze away from the centre is that things become a little less crisp, and I'm not just referring to chromatic aberration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration). The stuff at the outside is being displayed with a lower pixel density.

    Let me see if I can explain what I mean about distortion:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	distortion.jpg 
Views:	8 
Size:	139.8 KB 
ID:	2919

    The left is what you want to see. The middle is what you'd see if you looked at that image through VR lenses. So the right is showing the distortion that needs to be displayed in order to see the "normal" image through the lenses. If you look at the right picture, you'll see that the outside boxes are slightly smaller. But when you look at them through the lenses, they appear to all be the same size. Basically, it's stretched optically to be the same size, but the image at the edges is created with fewer pixels.


    Beyond that, it often depends on the type of content that you're viewing. With the Gear VR, most games look great and I don't really notice SDE much, but actual video is where I notice SDE. If you look at a face, for example, it doesn't look crisp. Text can also be an issue and look quite pixelated.

    I don't think we know (yet) where SDE ends, but I'm guessing that we'll see some huge advances once VR screens hit 4K resolution. There are already rumours swirling that the Samsung S8 will have a 4K screen.
    Do we know what DPI would not have any visible pixelation then?
    10-30-2016 11:48 AM
  18. ottscay's Avatar
    Do we know what DPI would not have any visible pixelation then?
    There isn't a single DPI answer to your question, because it depends on several factors that can potentially vary from headset to headset - in much the same way as a laptop can have no visible pixels with a lower DPI than a phone can (due to the distance at which you view each screen) VR headsets will not necessarily all have a single DPI level at which the pixels disappear (this also varies from person to person depending on vision). But we're not very close to getting rid of the screen door effect with the current generation screen resolutions.
    10-31-2016 12:13 AM
  19. Ian Francis's Avatar
    There isn't a single DPI answer to your question, because it depends on several factors that can potentially vary from headset to headset - in much the same way as a laptop can have no visible pixels with a lower DPI than a phone can (due to the distance at which you view each screen) VR headsets will not necessarily all have a single DPI level at which the pixels disappear (this also varies from person to person depending on vision). But we're not very close to getting rid of the screen door effect with the current generation screen resolutions.
    That is somewhat disappointing. I know the tech can easily get there, but I am concerned that by the time it does, the VR fad will have died out and no one will want it anymore. Hopefully I am wrong.
    10-31-2016 07:29 AM
  20. ottscay's Avatar
    That is somewhat disappointing. I know the tech can easily get there, but I am concerned that by the time it does, the VR fad will have died out and no one will want it anymore. Hopefully I am wrong.
    I agree, the fragmentation could lead customers to lose interest before it reaches critical mass. Alternatively the competition could drive a more rapid acceleration to such tech, perhaps like the gaming console wars. A lot of it probably has less to do with the speed of technological progress and whether or not content creators make compelling experiences that hook people into a VR platform sooner rather than later.
    11-01-2016 12:20 AM
  21. Ian Francis's Avatar
    I agree, the fragmentation could lead customers to lose interest before it reaches critical mass. Alternatively the competition could drive a more rapid acceleration to such tech, perhaps like the gaming console wars. A lot of it probably has less to do with the speed of technological progress and whether or not content creators make compelling experiences that hook people into a VR platform sooner rather than later.
    Hope you are right.
    11-02-2016 07:45 AM
  22. Markxmlx's Avatar
    Remember that all the pixels on your screen need to be essentially stretched to fit your field of vision so that you can enjoy VR so there is a tremendous value to having a higher resolution display.
    11-02-2016 08:02 AM
  23. Tobybuzzy's Avatar
    I don't experience too much SDE using a Huawei G8 and a cheap headset, much less than PSVR (depending on game) actually. That said my eyesight is not perfect and if I actually wore my glasses it would be worse. I think to have completely no SDE you would need 4k per eye, but a 4k phone screen would be a huge improvement over current offerings.
    12-09-2016 07:51 PM
  24. KermEd's Avatar
    Just a small tip... add a good quality screen protector. It softens the edges of the pixels and makes it less noticeable. It's an old trick we used on things like the DK2.

    Personally, I've used a LOT of VR headsets... outside of text readability, I've never minded the screendoor effect after a few minutes.

    The effect is visible on every headset I've used, even our VIVE and our HDK 2.0.
    12-13-2016 03:05 PM

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